My diocese has some great stuff going on and some very wonky stuff. Depends on the diocesan program, the parish, the priest, etc.
Many months ago I gave a copy of my book to the diocesan radio show person, who likes to interview local Catholic authors for their daily program. Long story short: I’ve never heard back. Even though lots of other people have been interviewed and there’s an indication that they’re kind of hurting for interesting guests.
Now, maybe they lost the book, or they’re swamped, or any number of other things. But the more likely reason is that my book is not “ecumenical” in the way that most of the diocesan leaders define the word.
Case in point: A terribly misguided article showed up in the monthly diocesan newspaper a month ago on ecumenism that basically said people don’t need to become Catholic. They’re fine where they are in non-Catholic communities. False! Wrong! Egregious error!
I sent a tactful message to the newspaper mentioning I thought there was some “confusion” in the article that I would like to help clear up through a respectfully written follow-up article. I mentioned that I was an author soon-to-be published by Catholic Answers. No response. Nothing.
This is the way it goes. You get enough people in diocesan leadership who aren’t solid in their understanding of the Faith, and they will blackball people who openly proclaim the Church’s teachings.
The newspaper, read by tens of thousands of Catholics in the diocese, ends up being a propaganda piece for heterodoxy. Terrible! The radio show, listened to by tens of thousands each week, is filled with fluff and wonkiness. Lord have mercy on us.
I don’t often write about such things, but we must work to better form our brothers and sisters in their faith. And pray for our bishops, who often don’t know about this stuff or turn a blind eye to it.
End rant. Welcome to Lent!
It is so sad to think of the wasted opportunity! Your book encourages authentic eccumenism by encouraging a mutual dialogue with seperated brothers. Not to mention it gives Catholics some good talking points. They should jump at the evangelistic opportunity.
My local Catholic radio has some similar flubs on occasion. After they aired an HOUR LONG Tim Tebow praise fest I called in to complain that this was not even Catholic programming, and that they were claiming that Tebow’s “ministry” preached the gospel in the Phillipines. I was told that I was out of line and people in the phillipines needed to hear Tebows brand of the gospel, because Catholics werent preaching there enough. What a world.
Gives me much less sympathy durring the 4 weeks of pledge drive a year.
Hmmm.
Sounds like you are judging the salvation of others, depending on what church they happen to belong to.
I thought Jesus said that if you do that then you just “heap more judgement upon yourself.”
That’s one of the things I love about my Lutheran Christian faith. We believe we know the truth. But we don’t believe that we are the ONLY ones who know it. (some Lutherans believe as you believe…that they are the ONLY ones…but we don’t believe errant doctrine).
Steve, understand that “outside the church there is no salvation” is the witness of the Church since the earliest days. Read the writings of the early Christians….they’re freely available. Just google “Church Fathers” or “Apostolic Fathers”.
Now it is true that God is not bound by the physical Church and can make exceptions since he is above the Church. More than a few early Christians believed that Socrates went to heaven. So there is a tension. Vatican II expressed this tension stating that people who have not outright rejected the Catholic Church as the one true Church but would have accepted if they understood are in an imperfect union with the Church, so there is a possibility of salvation….but that’s in God’s hands.
So we can’t judge other people’s salvation, but we can state where salvation is found, and call people, as Jesus did to enter by the narrow gate since Jesus refused to tell us if many were saved and the way to destruction was wide.
Steve,
Who are you responding to? If to me, where did I judge anyones salvation? I don’t even judge my own, let alone others.
And your strange comment about knowing the truth, but believing that others know a different truth is confusing. It sounds like you believe they and you could both have truths that contradict each other.
“A terribly misguided article showed up in the monthly diocesan newspaper a month ago on ecumenism that basically said people don’t need to become Catholic. They’re fine where they are in non-Catholic communities. False! Wrong! Egregious error!”
That is what I was responding to.
_____________________________
“outside the church there is no salvation”
We believe in the invisable Church that Christ knows. I know, I know…that’s not how you define the Church. But we do.
There is no salvation outside of Christ…would be the more accurate way to describe where salvation is found.
Off to wok. be back later toaday.
‘work’
Hi Steve,
Certainly as Catholics we affirm that Protestant communities teach many of the truths of our Faith. We share these in common, and that is a wonderful thing.
I said that it was “terrible”–not because non-Catholics cannot be saved (as Anil pointed out, the Church teaches that they can be)–but because it is contrary to Catholic teaching to say that non-Catholics should not become Catholic but should remain in their ecclesial communities.
God bless,
Devin
Thanks, Devin.
I understand you better now. Us confessional Lutheran types would return to Rome, but were it not for some things that we cannot budge from. Like the addition of any requirement (such as Popes, or clergy ordained in historic succesion) in addition to Christ Jesus and His forgiveness of sins.
Currently, our communion railing is open to all Roman Catholics, because of our doctrine of the invisable Church. We know Christ is at work wherever His gospel is proclaimed and handed over to sinners in Word and Sacrament.
Hi Steve,
Unlike the Protestant communities which are divided in their beliefs, the Catholic Church proclaims a unified faith, a faith which fulfills what scripture says about the Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth. Our faith is the full deposit of revelation which Christ communicated to the apostles Himself and through the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. It is the faith which the apostles passed on by word and letter to their successors the first bishops. It is the truth which has been guided by those successors and by Peter – the man whom Christ prayed over that his faith would not fail him. With the divine grace which has protected us from abandoning the faith, the Church has had 2000 years for the Holy Spirit to lead us into an ever deeper understanding of God’s revealed truth.
A body can be wounded, but it cannot be divided. The Church, as Christ’s Body, is visibly united in faith and action just as Christ is united with Himself.
Steve, you should know that when we partake of the Eucharistic food, which is Christ’s body and blood, we witness to the unity of that same body, the Church. Sadly, as long as we are divided in faith with you, we cannot share at your table. If we were to do so, we would be denying Christ’s own unity.
Study the history and writings of the early church. Read the writings of the fathers – Ignatius, Clement, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Athanasius, etc. A careful study will deepen your understanding of the Tradition which was handed on, the Tradition which Paul commanded us to keep.
When you have discerned you are ready to profess your belief in the Truth proclaimed by His Body, the Church, come and make your reconciliation. We pray for the day when you join us at the table at which all those united in faith are united in His love, for now and forever.
You are always welcome at out table. We have His body and blood, as well. It’s open to Catholics every Sunday in our congregation.
And, if you believe that there is no division amongst Catholics on matters of doctrine then you are kidding yourself.
Steve, the body of Christ cannot be divided in faith, because the Church is one. (How’s that for circular reasoning?)
Seriously, it’s important to distinguish heresy, schism, theological discussion, and heterodox misunderstanding of the Church’s teaching.
Simple discussions or misunderstandings don’t divide the Church. It is the job of the teaching Church to correct misunderstandings, and it is the job of the Holy Spirit to guide our theological discussions to a deeper understanding of the faith.
Schism and heresy, on the other hand, are very serious things. In these sins, a person separates himself from the Church, and in doing so, wounds the Body. But sin doesn’t divide the Church, nor can sin create two Churches or make two faiths both true. There is only one Body of Christ and the Church, since she is the pillar and foundation of the Truth, she can teach but one faith.
If your point is that there are heretics pretending to be Catholics, then I am not arguing with that. The reality is that the Catholic Church, by God’s grace, has unity of faith despite the reality of sin.
I know this can be difficult to believe. To believe that God has guided and will guide the Church into all Truth takes a gift of faith. He will give this faith to anyone who asks for it.
“ecclesial communities”. Hee,hee,hee. Chris just loves when we drive past one, Jeanne asks if ‘that is a church’, and I say “no, its a ecclesial community”.
And that is what I love about being Catholic. We know we have the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and no one else does. (Now watch the comment numbers soar!)
I am havng visions of John Belushi yelling “food fight!”
Devin,
I don’t think your problem is a lack of information. I’d bet money they are sufficiently well informed. They simply have a different vision of what they want Catholicism to be than the Catholic church does. As Peter Toon once remarked about the Episcopal Church, there are two religions existing in it. Just look at the censure (thanks be to God!) of Elizabeth Johnson. So at this point, they aren’t interested in dialog or education or understanding Catholicism. They are intereste din co-opting it and changing it. so th eonly option is to squeeze these people out by working within the structures they are occupying or by ecclesiastically removing them. Either you get the cancer or the canser gets you.
Perry,
You are very likely correct I think. The question is: can they ultimately be successful in changing the Church’s doctrine (with women’s ordination, same-sex stuff, and whatever else, as Episcopalians have been in their church)? Of course as a Catholic I would claim they cannot because the Holy Spirit would not allow it. But they don’t believe this or realize it.
Meyer, wait until that radio station does a praise fest for Jeremy Lin, the Tebow of basketball but not as outspoken. Lin said he wanted to be a pastor. With his influence, he could easily start a megachurch. I am praying that he converts to Catholicism!
I am praying that he gets traded to the Lakers.
It’s called false irenicism. False irenicism leads to anti-confrontationalism (or visa versa). Anti-confrontationalism leads to apathy. Apathy leads to war. Why? Because someone gives a dang. I think the attitude represents not so much a religious one as a cultural, idealogical one. It is the motif of the modern man to trade in dogma for Oprah. I am sure the people we are discussing have a committee to change a light bulb lest someone gets upset that they did not get to unscrew it.
Hi Devin,
Sadly, what you have described here is nothing new. I was born into a Catholic family and our family was very close to 3 other Catholic families back in the late 60′s / early 70′s. Most have fallen away from Christianity altogether; but those who didn’t, joined very strong “evangelical”/”pentecostal” churches (back then, they called themselves “reborn” Christians. Anyway, the long and the short is that I have always seen the movement away from the Catholic Church by those I care about as a need for substance and meaning which they were not getting as Catholics. I became an aethiest by firm intellectual conviction…I too needed meaning and subtance and wasn’t finding it in the confusion which I found in our parish and the Church at large back then. In later years, I discovered truth and faith in God again as a Catholic. But I understand very well how such “soft heterdoxy” can drive away those who honestly want to find the Truth. Very Sad!
I’ve not read many of the responses above. This Easter marks my 3rd year as Being A Catholic ( from the southern baptist persuasion ). What you describe is common everywhere else, but when it it happens in a Catholic Atmosphere, it’s hard to comprehend. We want Catholicity in all avenues. It don’t always happen. I had heard of Flannery O’Connor before I attempted college in the seventies. But I had never read her. Flash forward to 2008 and of the many things Catholic that I read, she made it most clear to me that you can’t always get what you want (even though you try sometimes in the best way you can). What do I mean ? Pray for those in charge. Talk to them face to face if you are able to. But in the End, the Church will Prevail.
David, one might say you have Wise Blood.
Thanks for the comment!